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English Heathenism Page on Jew Book!


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#1 Teutoburg Weald

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:08 PM

I came across a page on English Heathenism, so I thought I'd pay a visit, hasn't been up long, not much on it, but I'll tell you the groups aim:

 

Its aim is to bring the Wisdom and beliefs of English Heathen Practice and Ideals to the whole of England, and to all the English.............Wait for it:

 

Of what ever ethnicity they are and what ever ancestral back ground.....You get the gist??whistle.png

 

I've left them a nice long message of Cultural and Ancestral Roots of both English Heathenism, and the English themselves and that being English is not and never has been a 'One Size Fits All' Identity, and that they are day dreaming or plain naïve if they believe other groups of what ever Ethnic Ancestry or Faith, who have no Cultural or ethnic Roots or ancestral link to Northern Germanic & Norse Culture, belief and Gods and Mythology are going to drop their own Ancestral ways for a Cultural and Ancestral Belief System that is plainly Alien to them..!! 

 

At the moment there has been no reply so far, I might have burst their Rainbow Bubble??whistle.png


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“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Cicero

 

 

 ‘Had we lived, I should have had a tale to tell of the hardihood, endurance and courage of my companions that would have stirred the heart of every Englishman’.

 

"Don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! And even then we won't listen!"

 

 

 

 

 

E.L.A.M.O

 

 


#2 Woden's Child

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:37 PM

I came across a page on English Heathenism, so I thought I'd pay a visit, hasn't been up long, not much on it, but I'll tell you the groups aim:

 

Its aim is to bring the Wisdom and beliefs of English Heathen Practice and Ideals to the whole of England, and to all the English.............Wait for it:

 

Of what ever ethnicity they are and what ever ancestral back ground.....You get the gist??whistle.png

 

I've left them a nice long message of Cultural and Ancestral Roots of both English Heathenism, and the English themselves and that being English is not and never has been a 'One Size Fits All' Identity, and that they are day dreaming or plain naïve if they believe other groups of what ever Ethnic Ancestry or Faith, who have no Cultural or ethnic Roots or ancestral link to Northern Germanic & Norse Culture, belief and Gods and Mythology are going to drop their own Ancestral ways for a Cultural and Ancestral Belief System that is plainly Alien to them..!! 

 

At the moment there has been no reply so far, I might have burst their Rainbow Bubble??whistle.png

TW, if they can't understand that English heathenism pertains to a folk, and that folk are of Germanic ancestry, then they obviously have no understanding of the subject in hand. And if they have no understanding of the subject then they're a waste of time and space.


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   Truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth


#3 Hodekin

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:00 AM

Naïve indeed, if so, what could anyone possibly learn from them?

 

I do think however, this smacks of the "Heathenry is growing so lets Universalise it before it gets too tough to handle" option!

 

Having said that however, perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to miss a trick here. Many die hard Heathens today may indeed have started at the Universalist 'thin edge of the wedge' in terms of coming to the faith. Once in, and starting to learn, that's when the awkward questions start to be asked and this may prompt them move on to more in depth understandings of their  faith which inevitably will take on a more robust Folkish element to it. This would require in my mind, several 'sleepers' in this group to privately PM and meet with any likely candidates that would benefit from further instruction !

 

I know that we must be mindful of any attempt to dilute and distort our faith view, but by the same token the "baby and bathwater" scenario does spring to mind.

 

 

Hodekin


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Those who march with us will certainly face abuse, misunderstanding, bitter animosity and possibly the ferocity of struggle and of danger. In return, we can only offer to them the deep belief that they are fighting that a great land may live.

 

 

Sir Oswald Mosley

 


#4 Teutoburg Weald

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

We all come home to the ways of our ancestors in many various ways, and many various paths, so you may be right, but, up to now there has been no reply to my message, if they are genuine, they should reply and explain more and accept facts, but anyway, I'll keep a tab on the group!!


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“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Cicero

 

 

 ‘Had we lived, I should have had a tale to tell of the hardihood, endurance and courage of my companions that would have stirred the heart of every Englishman’.

 

"Don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! And even then we won't listen!"

 

 

 

 

 

E.L.A.M.O

 

 


#5 MrsGodwinson

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 09:37 PM

I've always been puzzled by the way some people seem to randomly pick deities that have absolutely nothing to do with their ancestry. But when I come to think of it that is an awful lot of those who reject monotheisms (and what are they doing outside the Middle East?). I looked into Thelema at one time and just felt silly with all the so called Egyptian imagery, for me reversion to Paganism was all about my ancestors, so I find these universalist Heathens  hard to comprehend.


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#6 Teutoburg Weald

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 09:58 PM

I've always been puzzled by the way some people seem to randomly pick deities that have absolutely nothing to do with their ancestry. But when I come to think of it that is an awful lot of those who reject monotheisms (and what are they doing outside the Middle East?). I looked into Thelema at one time and just felt silly with all the so called Egyptian imagery, for me reversion to Paganism was all about my ancestors, so I find these universalist Heathens  hard to comprehend.

 

I think you might have the wrong end of the stick? Its not that they are introducing out side Gods to English Heathenism but aim to get everyone in England, Native or not to follow the Elder Germanic Gods, means all those who have no ancestral Connection to England or North Western Europe and the Germanic diaspora following the Elder Ways, Gods and Spiritual Wisdoms of a completely alien Culture to their own Roots, Culture and Ancestry.. 

 

Its Naïve and rather silly, not to mention a pathetic attempt to Multiculturalise Elder Germanic Folk Belief and ways!!


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“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Cicero

 

 

 ‘Had we lived, I should have had a tale to tell of the hardihood, endurance and courage of my companions that would have stirred the heart of every Englishman’.

 

"Don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall! And even then we won't listen!"

 

 

 

 

 

E.L.A.M.O

 

 


#7 Steven

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:06 PM

I've always been puzzled by the way some people seem to randomly pick deities that have absolutely nothing to do with their ancestry. But when I come to think of it that is an awful lot of those who reject monotheisms (and what are they doing outside the Middle East?). I looked into Thelema at one time and just felt silly with all the so called Egyptian imagery, for me reversion to Paganism was all about my ancestors, so I find these universalist Heathens hard to comprehend.

 

Modern societies demand conformance so, if someone decides to set up a new religion its acceptance (within wider society) is predicated on it being 'open to all'. This of course makes it a social construct bereft of philosophical underpinnings, or bollocks for short.

 

Steve


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PARLIAMENT IS THE ENEMY OF THE ENGLISC NATION


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hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare þe ure mægen lytlað


#8 MrsGodwinson

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:34 PM

Sorry, I was not suggesting anyone was adding outside entities to English Heathenism, rather that many people who call themselves Pagan (for want of a better umbrella term) often seem to randomly pick deities, for example Wiccans are often eclectic in their use of gods, Thelema uses Egyptian gods and so on, what I was trying to say (obviously rather badly) was that for me personally, when I decided I wanted to work with traditional gods it was important for me that they related to my ethnicity, bloodline, ancestry etc., I've nothing against Anubis, just he doesn't speak to me. The kind of universalist Heathenism (bit of an oxymoron that) the opening post described seemed to me to be attempting to open the working with English gods to people of non English heritage, as I suppose Thelema opens the Egyptian pantheon to non Egyptians, something I was very uncomfortable with. I think Steve said it rather better tho'!


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#9 Qrust

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:16 AM

I think that when people are brought up with only one set of beliefs, they can believe and feel comfortable with that, but once they are given a choice they tend to loose their belief and feel lost. They then begin to admire alien cultures with strong beiiefs. Hence muslim converts, Celtic roots, converts, etc. One of the granchildren is maried to a Scot, and when we visted he was doing the ironing, that's what happens when you get cut off from your roots. Now don't mis-understand me here, I'm not saying men can't do the ironong, but he was trying to impress us, and I admire him for that. On the other hand it shows that he lacks that built-in self belief in being a man I had at his age. 


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#10 MrsGodwinson

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:58 PM

Actually, I think you've got a point Qrust, its all about choice and choice is the great god of modern Western "culture", indeed, I've seen modernity defined as "choice". If you think that you have a choice of working with any god, from anywhere in the world then I suppose you just pick the one you fancy. I have never felt comfortable with non English gods, simply because they feel alien and I have no connection with them. I have arrogantly assumed that everyone else must feel the same and that consequently any English person who wants to work with deities from outside the native ones must be a bit odd. I think you are right once you open belief to choice - well, pick a god any god!

 

Of course, once its opened up to choice apparently strong alien belief systems become attractive, spot on about Islam.

 

Going back to the original post then, this idea of universalist heathenism is not just a nice fluffy inclusive sort of thing but actually a way of promoting the choice aspect - insidiously undermining the tradition.  


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#11 Qrust

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:37 AM

Yes I think it is. I had a very intersting conversation with a Catholic priest once in Ireland, about 1997. They have State schools which are catholic and separate protestant schools in the towns. Out in the countyside the non catholics go to the state primary schools, and they just don't take part in the catholic bit, they go to the church to see their friends confirmed but don't take any part in the service. I asked the priest why they don't offer the non-catholic children the possibility to join in, and he said, you're either in or your out of the church, we don't encourage outsiders to join they wouldn't have the family support and they can be disruptive, just the simple fact of asking questions about why we do things the way we do can distance people from God. 


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#12 Qrust

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:28 PM

I think it's fair to say that true beleif in the Catholic church in Ireland began to evaporate after the Bishop Casey affair. That he had a son.

http://www.telegraph...-the-media.html

 

This was followed by various scandals including child abuse. The final result is that the Irish republic now officially recognises Pagan marriage

 

http://www.irishcent...237685321.html#

 

OK they are a bit of a  celtic white witch type, but then Irish in Ireland. There is no reason why even a saxon heathen wedding couldn't be held there and then it would have to be recognised in England.

 

The point I'm making is that things can change. 


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#13 Hodekin

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:42 PM

Unlike most other religions where one is supposed to lay face down in the dirt and grovel for forgiveness, Odinism/Wodenism is very much a case of standing on your own two feet and getting on with it! Also, most other religions are all about 'up there in the sky' and what will happen when you die, whereas Heathenry is very much about 'down here on the earth' and what you can achieve whilst you are alive!

But most of all, Heathenry is all about revering the ancestors and defining their common place with ours in the great web of Wyrd. This is where the Universalists part company with us, their idea of ancestors is 'Back to Africa' and 'Apes in the Trees' stuff. Whereas we look to the birth of our Folk in a definite European setting. This distinct racial contrast of Europeans and Africans is just too much for the PC brain washed Universalist Heathens to accept.

We are not all the same, we are all different! Whether we are superior or inferior to others is immaterial, the fact is we are different and that's what they cannot stomach.

I say we should infiltrate the bastards, just like they infiltrate us, weed out the ones worth saving, point them in the right direction and strengthen our Folkish blood base and our Folkish connection to the Gods.

Don't let the Uni's have a free hand in these things, newbies seem to find their way to them long before they get anywhere near to us!

Hodekin
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Those who march with us will certainly face abuse, misunderstanding, bitter animosity and possibly the ferocity of struggle and of danger. In return, we can only offer to them the deep belief that they are fighting that a great land may live.

 

 

Sir Oswald Mosley

 


#14 Pyewacket

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:18 PM

Unlike most other religions where one is supposed to lay face down in the dirt and grovel for forgiveness, Odinism/Wodenism is very much a case of standing on your own two feet and getting on with it! Also, most other religions are all about 'up there in the sky' and what will happen when you die, whereas Heathenry is very much about 'down here on the earth' and what you can achieve whilst you are alive!

But most of all, Heathenry is all about revering the ancestors and defining their common place with ours in the great web of Wyrd. This is where the Universalists part company with us, their idea of ancestors is 'Back to Africa' and 'Apes in the Trees' stuff. Whereas we look to the birth of our Folk in a definite European setting. This distinct racial contrast of Europeans and Africans is just too much for the PC brain washed Universalist Heathens to accept.

We are not all the same, we are all different! Whether we are superior or inferior to others is immaterial, the fact is we are different and that's what they cannot stomach.

I say we should infiltrate the bastards, just like they infiltrate us, weed out the ones worth saving, point them in the right direction and strengthen our Folkish blood base and our Folkish connection to the Gods.

Don't let the Uni's have a free hand in these things, newbies seem to find their way to them long before they get anywhere near to us!

Hodekin

 

This is a subject I'd like to look further into, but I don't want to waste my time and money on wooly "new-agey" bollocks, or, at the other end, USA white supremacists and neo-Nazi bollocks. If you (indeed, any of you)  could recommend some worthwhile books or authors I would appreciate it.


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#15 Hodekin

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 11:08 PM

Sorry to disappoint but I do not believe there is a clean cut and one size fits all answer to this question that will satisfy anyone 100%.

For every argument there is a counter argument, for every belief there is a counter belief, and so the wheel turns around and around leading us absolutely nowhere, at least that is the academic rout of books and modern education as we know it.

One does not need to be taught how to breath nor does one need proof to know that the wind blows, simplistic? Of course! The most profound truths usually are.

If someone was to miraculously give you written evidence for or against, you would not believe it...you dare not believe it, because you know how such things can be manipulated and contrived...for any side of an argument.

These are the times when it is only your inner voices and deep consciousness that you can listen to with any level of acceptance and trust, and if you cannot do that, then it's back to books and the contrived words of others for your sanity and salvation.

These inner voices from a deep racial memory are very real, to hear them is one thing and to understand them is quite something else, but they are there!

Meditation may help, but to read the books and the words of others in the end only gives you their opinion from their particular agenda. They may be right, they may be wrong, but how will you know?

The words of the oracle at Delphi were so true....know thyself! That's where the truth lies, if you can unlock it!

I expect I shall be ridiculed over this post, but that's OK, I am comfortable and content with this view and please believe me when I say that I do not use these words lightly...at least grant me that!


Hodekin
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Those who march with us will certainly face abuse, misunderstanding, bitter animosity and possibly the ferocity of struggle and of danger. In return, we can only offer to them the deep belief that they are fighting that a great land may live.

 

 

Sir Oswald Mosley

 


#16 silvatici

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 09:47 AM

I could not agree more Hodekin, and I wait with growing interest to the reply that TW gets, or otherwise!!!!!


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#17 Pyewacket

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 07:02 PM

Sorry to disappoint but I do not believe there is a clean cut and one size fits all answer to this question that will satisfy anyone 100%.

For every argument there is a counter argument, for every belief there is a counter belief, and so the wheel turns around and around leading us absolutely nowhere, at least that is the academic rout of books and modern education as we know it.

One does not need to be taught how to breath nor does one need proof to know that the wind blows, simplistic? Of course! The most profound truths usually are.

If someone was to miraculously give you written evidence for or against, you would not believe it...you dare not believe it, because you know how such things can be manipulated and contrived...for any side of an argument.

These are the times when it is only your inner voices and deep consciousness that you can listen to with any level of acceptance and trust, and if you cannot do that, then it's back to books and the contrived words of others for your sanity and salvation.

These inner voices from a deep racial memory are very real, to hear them is one thing and to understand them is quite something else, but they are there!

Meditation may help, but to read the books and the words of others in the end only gives you their opinion from their particular agenda. They may be right, they may be wrong, but how will you know?

The words of the oracle at Delphi were so true....know thyself! That's where the truth lies, if you can unlock it!

I expect I shall be ridiculed over this post, but that's OK, I am comfortable and content with this view and please believe me when I say that I do not use these words lightly...at least grant me that!


Hodekin

 

 

Thanks Hodekin.  There's nothing worthy of ridicule from where I'm standing; wise words and points well made. The approach you describe is how I try to live now, very much a "doing" rather than a "thinking" approach, and one which has stood me in good stead. I didn't mean a " HOW TO BE HEATHEN IN TEN DAYS!" self help type 

book, more of general information on the different deities and how our ancestors practised their faith.

 

How did the ancient English regard the standing stones and barrows already here? What happens to everybody who has the good fortune(?) not to die in battle? Saxneat?

Eostre? I find information difficult to get to grips with on the internet; the technology confounds me , I shoot off at tangents, and I just don't enjoy it as much as a book!

 

(The questions are for illustration by the way, I'm not asking you, it'd take forever and there are a lot more!)

 

So that's the sort of thing I meant; a good reference with an index, and I'm not coming in completely cold. Great points though, and thanks.thumbsup.gif


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#18 Steven

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 09:06 PM

These are the times when it is only your inner voices and deep consciousness that you can listen to with any level of acceptance and trust, and if you cannot do that, then it's back to books and the contrived words of others for your sanity and salvation.

These inner voices from a deep racial memory are very real, to hear them is one thing and to understand them is quite something else, but they are there!

 

Understanding what is the collective conscience of a race, or indeed a sub-division (tribe, nation) of same, is only now being addressed by science. It's there because the evidence for it supports the hypothesis - we cleave to our own when trouble stirs and that is something which can measured. There are dozens of other examples.

 

Steve


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PARLIAMENT IS THE ENEMY OF THE ENGLISC NATION


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The English, insofar as they recognise their origin, identity and cultural roots, are not 'Westerners', but an ancient northern people - Rev. John Lovejoy

hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare þe ure mægen lytlað


#19 MrsGodwinson

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 05:02 PM

I agree, opening yourself to inner voices is valid, in fact in some sense the only valid spiritual expression. The alternative is the hopeless search for "authenticity".


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#20 Qrust

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 09:49 AM

I suppose there is information out there in bits, reliable or otherwise. You can certainly listen to inner voices, but you can discuss things with other people. This mornings discussion was how when you close your eyes in the dark you can see your optic nerve, and what exactly does it look like, and then you can go further and, what I see anyway, is a bit like old cobwebs but more of a luminousy green colour. Is this your brain, the wyrd, imagination, or just your eyeballs. Does this make any sense to anyone?
But whilst it's interesting what our ancient ancestors did and believed, certainly many many beliefs and traditions are passed down to the present day. Is there a reason that there aren't tales on here of the type, my Grandma told me?


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