7 replies to this topic

[Andy]

Official: More English than Scots want independence for Scotland
Take the hint and piss off

By Simon Walters
Last updated at 11:19 PM on 14th January 2012

There is more support in England for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom than there is north of the border, according to a poll for The Mail on Sunday.
Scots do not want the English to meddle in whether they end their 300-year union with England, but English voters are much keener to have a say in the matter.
And the main worry of Scots appears to be that cutting their ties with England and Wales will leave them with less cash.
Proving yet again what a bunch of fucking parasites they have, and are been.


Cutting old ties?: The Prime Minister David Cameron with Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond

It is the first comprehensive opinion poll in Scotland and England since Prime Minister David Cameron decided to throw down the gauntlet to Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond, as revealed by The Mail on Sunday last week.

Two surveys, conducted separately in England and Scotland by polling firm Survation, show that Mr Salmond’s plan to offer an alternative  of ‘devo max’ –  grabbing more power from Westminster for Scotland, but staying in the UK – could backfire.
When asked David Cameron’s preferred straight ‘Yes or No’ question on whether Scotland should be independent, a total of 26 per cent of Scots favour breaking away, with 46 in favour of staying in the UK. However, when the same question is put alongside the ‘devo max’ option as an alternative, there is a different result.


Divisions: The results of the recent poll

In that case support for independence falls to 23 among Scots, with backing for staying put in the UK rising to 52. It suggests that the ‘devo max’ alternative threatens Mr Salmond’s dream of becoming the first leader of a new independent Scotland.
When independence for Scots is put to English voters in a straight ‘Yes or No’ question, 40 per cent say ‘No’ with 29 per cent saying ‘Yes’ – three points higher than the result in Scotland.
The gulf in opinion north and south of the border is most stark over the question of whether the referendum should be UK-wide. Nearly seven out of ten Scots say the English should mind their own business. But 38 per cent of people in England want a vote in the referendum, with the same number against.
The poll also suggests the English are less worried about Scotland abandoning links with England than are the Scots.

Cameron's warning: How the Mail on Sunday broke the story of the referendum rumpus last week
When voters in Scotland are asked what should happen if there is a small majority for ‘independence’ but even greater backing for ‘devo max,’ more than half say Scotland should not break away. When the same question is put to English voters, they are content to say goodbye to Scotland.
More than four in ten Scots fear independence will leave them worse off financially. Fewer than one in four say they will gain. The collapse of the euro has done little to swell enthusiasm for Mr Salmond’s nationalist cause. A massive 79 per cent of Scots do not want to join the euro; 49 per cent don’t even want to join the EU, with only 32 in favour, if they leave the UK.
An early poll in 2013 – rather that 2014, the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn, as planned by Salmond – is endorsed by a small margin in Scotland, and overwhelmingly in England and Wales.
Survation interviewed 1,001 people in Scotland and 1,019 in England and Wales between Thursday and Saturday.



Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1jUextsCh

[Andy]

All this proves is that because England has'nt been allowed any debate on English independance or an English parliament there are many English who are thick as fuck when it relates to this topic.

[Guthlac]

http://www.telegraph...dependence.html

Britain divided over Scottish independence

A new opinion poll has painted a picture of a divided Britain – with Scottish voters rejecting independence for their country while English voters support it.


The ICM survey for The Sunday Telegraph provides headaches for both David Cameron and Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister, as the battle ahead of a referendum on the future of the 307-year-old Union heats up.

In a landmark intervention, the Prime Minister used an interview with this newspaper last weekend to call Mr Salmond's bluff over a referendum, demanding one "sooner rather than later" and claiming that the uncertainty surrounding the polling plans was harming Scotland's economy.

Mr Salmond, whose Scottish National Party (SNP) has a majority in the Scottish parliament, responded by saying there would be a referendum in 2014, the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn.

The poll shows that while a substantial proportion of Scots (40 per cent) back independence, 43 per cent want to remain inside the United Kingdom.

However, among English voters - who would not get a vote in any referendum - there is a clear lead for those who support independence for Scotland (43 per cent) over those who want the Union to be preserved (32 per cent).

In a similar ICM survey for The Sunday Telegraph in December 2006, voters in both England and Scotland were in favour of Scottish independence.

Today's poll provides a series of setbacks for Mr Salmond, who favours a "three question" referendum in which Scots are offered the choice of full independence, the status quo, or a "devolution max" option in which all powers other than foreign policy and defence are handed to the parliament in Edinburgh.

Offered this precise choice by ICM, more Scots go for the status quo (37 per cent) than the other two options, both of which win 26 per cent support.

Mr Salmond's choice of a referendum in 2014 is also less popular (41 per cent) among Scots than a vote "as soon as possible (43 per cent). More than half English voters (52 per cent) also want a quick referendum.

Most Scots admit their nation would be worse off after independence (41 per cent) than better off (38 per cent), while 51 per cent of English think the Scots would be worse off.

Mr Cameron, who makes it clear he is a passionate defender of the Union, faces a fight to turn round public opinion south of the border, however.

As well as clear support for Scottish independence, just under half of English voters (49 per cent) back the creation of an English parliament, with only 16 per cent against – a lead which is down slightly on 2006.
Some 61 per cent of English people, moreover, say the current formula which sees higher government spending per head in Scotland is unjustified - a similar finding to 2006.

Among Scots, 53 per cent think that the spending system, known as the Barnett formula, is justified while 21 per cent do not agree.
If Scotland votes for independence the country is likely to have to apply to join the euro and would see the Trident nuclear weapons system, whose home currently is Faslane on the Clyde, repatriated south of the border.

Nationalist politicians have attacked Mr Cameron for "bullying" Scots over an independence vote.

Stewart Hosie, the SNP MP who is his party's chief whip at Westminster, said: "Every step the anti-independence parties have taken since Cameron's chaotic intervention ... has done nothing but boost support for independence and ensuring that the people of Scotland are able to see decisions taken about what's best for Scotland in Scotland."

All three major parties in England – the Conservatives. Labour and the Liberal Democrats – believe in keeping the Union Kingdom together, but the nascent pro-Union campaign suffers from the lack of a clear leader to puts the case forcefully against Mr Salmond.
The Conservatives only have one MP in Scotland – ruling out Mr Cameron or George Osborne, the Chancellor – while no senior Labour politician appears to relish taking up the role.

Alistair Darling, the former chancellor, emerged last week as a possible candidate but he is understood to have told colleagues he is reluctant to take on the position.

..........................

http://www.telegraph...ndum-QandA.html

Scottish independence referendum: Q&A

Alex Salmond, the Scottish First Minister, has pledged a referendum on Scottish independence in 2014. Here are the key questions:

What is being discussed?
First Minister Alex Salmond is at loggerheads with Westminster about a vote over the independence of Scotland. The power to grant a legally binding referendum is held by the UK Government and Prime Minister David Cameron has suggested the vote could be held within 18 months. But Mr Salmond has promised a referendum in the autumn of 2014.

Why the conflict?
Mr Cameron does not want Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. He has pledged to publish legal advice, which is expected to show it would be unlawful for the Scottish Parliament to hold a "binding" referendum without the agreement of Westminster, which wants the vote to take place sooner than 2014.

Meanwhile, the Scottish National Party (SNP) has accused the Prime Minister of "meddling" in Scottish democracy. Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the timing of the referendum was a "decision that is really one for the Scottish Government." The Scottish Government was accused of trying to delay a referendum because Mr Salmond knew voters did not "at heart" was to separate from the UK.

Without co-operation from Westminster, the Scottish Parliament can hold a non-binding referendum, which would demonstrate the strength of feeling among voters.

What would voters be asked?
This is another source of conflict. Westminster thinks the referendum should simply ask Scottish voters whether they think the country should split from the UK. But the SNP is considering a second question that would include asking voters whether the Scottish Parliament should be granted more powers while remaining part of the union. Scotland currently has devolved powers that include autonomy over issues such as agriculture, criminal justice, education, health and police and fire services.

Ms Sturgeon said: "We have never ruled out a second question to give people in Scotland maximum choice." The Scottish Cabinet's finalised referendum proposals are due to be published later this month.

What do Scottish voters want?
According to a ComRes poll in October, 39 per cent of those surveyed in the UK agreed Scotland should have independence. In Scotland, the figure was almost half at 49 per cent. Scotland's Deputy First Minister has claimed that Mr Cameron's handling of the referendum would boost the case for independence.

But a more recent poll by Ipsos MORI for the think tank British Future found 54 per cent of people in Scotland wanted to stay in the Union. According to the survey results, a higher proportion of voters in Scotland wanted to stay in the UK than across England and Wales.

So what happens now?
If the two parliaments fail to settle the matter, it could go to the Supreme Court. The UK minister Michael Moore has said he would work with Mr Salmond to reach a resolution while Mr Cameron has said it is "very unfair" to Scotland to prolong the debate over the timing of a referendum. Mr Salmond has stood by his pledge for a referendum in 2014, saying: "In stark contrast to Westminster’s disarray, the Scottish Government will continue with the orderly process of bringing forward the referendum in the second half of this parliament."

What is the history of the union?
The acts of union between Scotland and England were passed in 1706. Both countries had shared a monarch since 1603 but had not come together to form a single kingdom, meaning there was in effect, two crowns on one head.

The Acts took effect on 1 May 1707. On this date, the Scottish Parliament and the English Parliament united to form the Parliament of Great Britain, based in the Palace of Westminster.

England was keen for the union to ensure Scotland would not choose a monarch different from the one on the English throne.

The Scots needed financial help following an economically disastrous scheme to attempt to colonise the Isthmus of Panama in the late 1690s.

In 1999, after almost three centuries, a devolved Scottish Parliament was opened after a referendum in Scotland.

Before the present SNP government was elected in a landslide victory, it had made an election pledge for a referendum on independence on the lifetime of the current Scottish parliament.

The scrounging scots what it both ways, independence and English money. Forever the thieves and beggars.

[KingSaeward]

Can't we just invade them and save the arguement? That way I can go walking in the mountains without my passport when it does finally split.

[Unbroken Shieldwall]

Who wants to walk in Scotland? We've got the peaks and the lakes! Dartmoors pretty nice not to mention the Norfolk broads.

We need to show that we want Scottish independence but the only thing we're upset about is that we weren't asked for our own independence or parliament.

[Harold Godwinsson]

Andy, on 15 January 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

All this proves is that because England has'nt been allowed any debate on English independance or an English parliament there are many English who are thick as fuck when it relates to this topic.

I don't think so, as i've pointed out before, Polls, any Polls can not be trusted, and Government Polls are top of that list, no Poll gives a true opinion on views..

Also when they say English, who do they actually mean? You see, anyone living South of the Border is English in their eyes, so they are asking anyone and everyone, black, white, pink and yellow, anyone is English according to the Media, and the Establishment in general......

In short, only the Englisc should have say in this issue, no one else, since we are the ones that are involved in this issue, since we are the Native population..

You can not trust Polls, we should all know that...

HG

[edmundy]

A poll of 1000 people? That is a really low survey group,on an issue that will effect 67 million people. Of course the 'undecided' or 'no' is what what the Government want to hear as the answer on 'Should they go?'. I cannot understand for the life of me why any English Folc would not want to see the back of them,its a win-win on every level! The Brits are terrified at the possibility,all their pet ethnics (who know they are not English and never will be) are starting to feel uncomfortable as it underlines without their 'British' tag they really have no sense of belonging to this green and pleasent land. Perhaps we should debate what we'd miss about the icy highlands?
The predictable things our Ministers are saying is the 'economic benefits'? and the 'Military assistance'??? Of course the Scottish regiments have done great service/dirty work for the Brit Elites over the years,that's not doubted. But you watch how the slimeballs in Westminster try and angle it that without their 'security' we're all 'doomed' from the unforseen (read imaginary) 'terror threat'.

[Searu man]

Harold Godwinsson, on 15 January 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I don't think so, as i've pointed out before, Polls, any Polls can not be trusted, and Government Polls are top of that list, no Poll gives a true opinion on views..

Also when they say English, who do they actually mean? You see, anyone living South of the Border is English in their eyes, so they are asking anyone and everyone, black, white, pink and yellow, anyone is English according to the Media, and the Establishment in general......

In short, only the Englisc should have say in this issue, no one else, since we are the ones that are involved in this issue, since we are the Native population..

You can not trust Polls, we should all know that...

HG

I dunno. They're good cheap plumbers!